Date   

Re: Paper Modeling Lesson's Learned

Ron K
 

Jim, take a look at papermodelers.com for some backgrounds. There's also Fiddlers Green though they are 99% paid models.

Ron


Re: Almond coupling

autopilotjim
 

I've never seen that before. Very interesting. Although I'm completely new to automata, I find myself looking at mechanism animations and wondering which of them are within my skill level. The possibilities for movement are seemingly endless!  Here's my favorite channel with 1 or 2 new videos every week. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/thang010146/videos

thanks

jim


Re: Teddy the Artist

Craig
 

Thanks Jim. Yes it's definitely a puzzler.

It's been good fun researching so far, stumbling across all sorts of wonderful inventions in the patents database. Lots of food for thought.

Best wishes,
Craig


Re: Paper Modeling Lesson's Learned

 

Thanks for the tips Ron.
I keep thinking along the lines of "hybrid".  I can see how some very wonder detail could be added to an automation using printed paper.
I appreciate that you've brought paper automates to our attention and would love to see some images of your work.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 11:04, Ron K via groups.io <peter.pilot=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Some "lessons learned" on paper modeling based on Rob Ive's patterns. He has a fair number of free ones, and he also has models on the Brother paper craft site but most of those are static. There are a few YouTube "hacks" showing possibility of combining the mechanisms with other art work/characters.
  1. Tools.
    1. Get a plastic box to throw it all in so it can be set aside.
    2. Use scissors for the big stuff, get out the hobby cutter, Exacto etc., for the details.
    3. When the blade dulls, replace it. They can be re-honed if desired.
    4. Find/make something to roll the tubes used as axles around. I cut a long, 1-1/2",  slot in a 1/4" dowel.
    5. Occasionally it can be a pain to hold a piece firm without mashing it. Small spring clothes pins are just the right size to hold a lot of these pieces while the glue dries.
    6. Use a steel rule. Being frugal, I put on my own cork from shelf lining. The raised rule makes it easier to guide a blade and the cork makes it slip resistant.
    7. Get an old plastic card, or a purpose made, glue spreader. Really helps with putting on just a couple of drops and spreading it out. Easy to add more glue, tough to remove excess without getting it where it's not wanted.
    8. I have used, in the US from the $1 store, cleaned out nail polish bottle & brush for glue. Can be a PIA to get the glue in the bottle, but the brush can be handy.
    9. It pays to print out the uncolored one for rehearsal. You won't feel as bad if you have to try again. Nice part is it's only paper and time.
    10. For the long pieces, I sometimes resort to hemostats with a 2-1/2' jaw.
    11. All the axles go through holes. Consider a paper punch, check for the proper hole size, or cheap set of leather punches. I've not had great success cutting the things out.
    12. A cutting mat is very nice. Not much bigger than the paper is all that's needed.
  2. Techniques
    1. When you download a Rob Ives pattern, the file name won't say "Pattern." I always add that. Rob used to provide pdf instructions, and they would have a similar name and it's easy to confuse the pattern with the instructions. 
    2. Now most of the instructions for Rob's models are a web page. Use your browser tools to print the instructions to a pdf. I use FireFox and it will print a "simplified" version of the page. Works 90% of the time.Save the file with the same name as the pattern with "Instructions" as a suffix. I do this on a tablet so i can just have both files open. Set the table display time-out for a long period of time. Inevitably it will time and go dark out when you are gluing and want to double check something 1st.
    3. Crease the folds before cutting out the pieces.
    4. Cut out all the pieces so you can review the order with the assembly pictures. Not all of Rob's items will have the label where it will easily stay attached after cutting, so you may need to refer back to the pdf.
    5. Look very, very, very closely at Rob's pictures. There are generally at least two things, like what direction to fold something regardless of the hill/valley markings, that need to be reviewed before applying glue.
    6. It's easy to get ahead of the pictures thinking "Oh, I'll just glue this up too." Don't do it.
    7. Rob often uses two different types of triangular folds to re-enforce openings or boxes. Double check the picture for which way it gets folded.
    8. Keep large scrap handy to wipe excess glue on.
    9. Don't get real heavy paper. Not needed and some printers aren't happy with it. ~65# seems good.


Re: What's On My Bench: Two videos

 

Hi Gus...
Hopefully, I'll be renting in yearly increments.  The hour meter is for 'maintenance' purposes.
For example, I'll appreciate knowing how many hours I can expect from the gear motors before they fail.  
I would expect these automata (the product spinning rentals) to operate ~2,000 hours per year.
Time will tell.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 at 00:59, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,
What is its purpose ? For your maintenance attention, or are you thinking to rent it on hourly basis ?
Gus

On 11 Jun 2020, at 12:44 am, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
Not yet...I just received an 'hour meter' that I am in the process of installing.  Then I'm going to take it out and try to market it.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Wish you luck with your product display. Is it in operation at a commercial establishment ?

Gus


Re: WIP "The Politician"

 

Hi Gus...
I've successfully installed motor/hand-crank  combinations on several of my pieces and I'm always glad that I did.  I isolate the motor from the hand-crank using two one-way bearings.
This gives the option of hand cranking (which is really useful during the build!) and then operating under power when you simply want to stand back and let it go by itself.
I look forward to watching the progress of your politician.  Your work so far looks exquisite.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 at 00:46, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,
I think a hand crank involves the observer more than motorised, so it will be manual. Though, in this case, given the size of the whole, it might be beneficial to stand back. Thanks for the question, I will keep the perspective in mind.
Hard to know how long it will take, there is so much inventing to do. My guess would be months, probably six at best.

Be safe,
Gus

On 11 Jun 2020, at 12:43 am, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
Thanks for posting.  I got out my converting calculator and see that this figure will be 31" high.  Very impressive.
I like the way that you have carved the head...nice shape and proportions and detail.  Good job.
Please do keep posting your progress.  These builds are very interesting.
Hand crank or motor?  What is your rough estimate for completion (month, year)?
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:16, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
A politician is standing in front of the usual flag background, and an impressive foyer, behind an equally impressive lectern. He is delivering a message, as they tend to do. At the end, something happens, which I will keep secret until completion, no need to spoil a surprise.
The figure is 800mm tall, has eyes which turn side to side, up/down, the head turns, nods up, down, the arms move and he body turns from the waist and bows. All is dependant upon success of managing to achieve all of that.......
The first part is the carving of the head, from a 90x90 mm block of Huon Pine, an Australian semi softwood which holds small details very well. It was some 28 hours to completion.



The interior was carved out to make room for the eye mechanism, which is the next part to fabricate. That will be added to this post as the process continues.



Regards, keep safe !
Gus

Attachments:


Re: What's On My Bench: Two videos

Gus
 

Hi Jim,
What is its purpose ? For your maintenance attention, or are you thinking to rent it on hourly basis ?
Gus

On 11 Jun 2020, at 12:44 am, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
Not yet...I just received an 'hour meter' that I am in the process of installing.  Then I'm going to take it out and try to market it.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Wish you luck with your product display. Is it in operation at a commercial establishment ?

Gus


Re: WIP "The Politician"

Gus
 

Hi Jim,
I think a hand crank involves the observer more than motorised, so it will be manual. Though, in this case, given the size of the whole, it might be beneficial to stand back. Thanks for the question, I will keep the perspective in mind.
Hard to know how long it will take, there is so much inventing to do. My guess would be months, probably six at best.

Be safe,
Gus

On 11 Jun 2020, at 12:43 am, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
Thanks for posting.  I got out my converting calculator and see that this figure will be 31" high.  Very impressive.
I like the way that you have carved the head...nice shape and proportions and detail.  Good job.
Please do keep posting your progress.  These builds are very interesting.
Hand crank or motor?  What is your rough estimate for completion (month, year)?
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:16, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
A politician is standing in front of the usual flag background, and an impressive foyer, behind an equally impressive lectern. He is delivering a message, as they tend to do. At the end, something happens, which I will keep secret until completion, no need to spoil a surprise.
The figure is 800mm tall, has eyes which turn side to side, up/down, the head turns, nods up, down, the arms move and he body turns from the waist and bows. All is dependant upon success of managing to achieve all of that.......
The first part is the carving of the head, from a 90x90 mm block of Huon Pine, an Australian semi softwood which holds small details very well. It was some 28 hours to completion.



The interior was carved out to make room for the eye mechanism, which is the next part to fabricate. That will be added to this post as the process continues.



Regards, keep safe !
Gus

Attachments:


Re: Rob Ives Paper Automata Hack ~WARNING POLITICAL~

 

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 04:47, Ron K via groups.io <peter.pilot=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I hesitate to call this anything of my own, standing on the shoulders of giants type of thing. Very political, I do not want to debate, just using my freedom of expression. But for others who struggle with "talent" maybe it will provide some inspiration. Rob has many, many free templates, and modeling in paper is cheap LOL and mistakes easily replaced. So until the real inspiration hits . . .

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBJ0HUEJRX6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Ron


Paper Modeling Lesson's Learned

Ron K
 

Some "lessons learned" on paper modeling based on Rob Ive's patterns. He has a fair number of free ones, and he also has models on the Brother paper craft site but most of those are static. There are a few YouTube "hacks" showing possibility of combining the mechanisms with other art work/characters.
  1. Tools.
    1. Get a plastic box to throw it all in so it can be set aside.
    2. Use scissors for the big stuff, get out the hobby cutter, Exacto etc., for the details.
    3. When the blade dulls, replace it. They can be re-honed if desired.
    4. Find/make something to roll the tubes used as axles around. I cut a long, 1-1/2",  slot in a 1/4" dowel.
    5. Occasionally it can be a pain to hold a piece firm without mashing it. Small spring clothes pins are just the right size to hold a lot of these pieces while the glue dries.
    6. Use a steel rule. Being frugal, I put on my own cork from shelf lining. The raised rule makes it easier to guide a blade and the cork makes it slip resistant.
    7. Get an old plastic card, or a purpose made, glue spreader. Really helps with putting on just a couple of drops and spreading it out. Easy to add more glue, tough to remove excess without getting it where it's not wanted.
    8. I have used, in the US from the $1 store, cleaned out nail polish bottle & brush for glue. Can be a PIA to get the glue in the bottle, but the brush can be handy.
    9. It pays to print out the uncolored one for rehearsal. You won't feel as bad if you have to try again. Nice part is it's only paper and time.
    10. For the long pieces, I sometimes resort to hemostats with a 2-1/2' jaw.
    11. All the axles go through holes. Consider a paper punch, check for the proper hole size, or cheap set of leather punches. I've not had great success cutting the things out.
    12. A cutting mat is very nice. Not much bigger than the paper is all that's needed.
  2. Techniques
    1. When you download a Rob Ives pattern, the file name won't say "Pattern." I always add that. Rob used to provide pdf instructions, and they would have a similar name and it's easy to confuse the pattern with the instructions. 
    2. Now most of the instructions for Rob's models are a web page. Use your browser tools to print the instructions to a pdf. I use FireFox and it will print a "simplified" version of the page. Works 90% of the time.Save the file with the same name as the pattern with "Instructions" as a suffix. I do this on a tablet so i can just have both files open. Set the table display time-out for a long period of time. Inevitably it will time and go dark out when you are gluing and want to double check something 1st.
    3. Crease the folds before cutting out the pieces.
    4. Cut out all the pieces so you can review the order with the assembly pictures. Not all of Rob's items will have the label where it will easily stay attached after cutting, so you may need to refer back to the pdf.
    5. Look very, very, very closely at Rob's pictures. There are generally at least two things, like what direction to fold something regardless of the hill/valley markings, that need to be reviewed before applying glue.
    6. It's easy to get ahead of the pictures thinking "Oh, I'll just glue this up too." Don't do it.
    7. Rob often uses two different types of triangular folds to re-enforce openings or boxes. Double check the picture for which way it gets folded.
    8. Keep large scrap handy to wipe excess glue on.
    9. Don't get real heavy paper. Not needed and some printers aren't happy with it. ~65# seems good.


Re: Rob Ives Paper Automata Hack ~WARNING POLITICAL~

Ron K
 

Thank you Jim, I appreciate it. The biggest and hardest lesson has been to not freak (uh, have a tantrum) over glue where it's not wanted. It generally turns out to be reasonably benign and from what I've read everyone, regardless of how long they have been doing it, struggles

For anyone else reading this, I've jotted down a few "lessons learned" based on Rob Ives models.
  1. Tools.
    1. Get a plastic box to throw it all in so it can be set aside.
    2. Use scissors for the big stuff, get out the hobby cutter, Exacto etc., for the details.
    3. When the blade dulls, replace it. They can be re-honed if desired.
    4. Find/make something to roll the tubes used as axles around. I cut a long, 1-1/2",  slot in a 1/4" dowel.
    5. Occasionally it can be a pain to hold a piece firm without mashing it. Small spring clothes pins are just the right size to hold a lot of these pieces while the glue dries.
    6. Use a steel rule. Being frugal, I put on my own cork from shelf lining. The raised rule makes it easier to guide a blade.
    7. Get an old plastic card, or a purpose made, glue spreader. Really helps with putting on just a couple of drops and spreading it out. Easy to add more glue, tough to remove excess without getting it where it's not wanted.
    8. I have used, in the US from the $1 store, cleaned out nail polish bottle & brush for glue. Can be a PIA to get the glue in the bottle, but the brush can be handy.
    9. It pays to print out the uncolored one for rehearsal. You won't feel as bad if you have to try again. Nice part is it's only paper and time.
    10. For the long pieces, I sometimes resort to hemostats with a 2-1/2' jaw.
    11. All the axles go through holes. Consider a paper punch, check for the proper hole size, or cheap set of leather punches. I've not had great success cutting the things out.
    12. A cutting mat is very nice. Not much bigger than the paper is all that's needed.
  2. Techniques
    1. When you download a Rob Ives pattern, the file name won't say "Pattern." I always add that. Rob used to provide pdf instructions, and they would have a similar name and it's easy to confuse the pattern with the instructions. 
    2. Now most of the instructions for Rob's models are a web page. Use your browser tools to print the instructions to a pdf. I use FireFox and it will print a "simplified" version of the page. Works 90% of the time.Save the file with the same name as the pattern with "Instructions" as a suffix. I do this on a tablet so i can just have both files open. Set the table display time-out for a long period of time. Inevitably it will time and go dark out when you are gluing and want to double check something 1st.
    3. Crease the folds before cutting out the pieces.
    4. Cut out all the pieces so you can review the order with the assembly pictures. Not all of Rob's items will have the label where it will easily stay attached after cutting, so you may need to refer back to the pdf.
    5. Look very, very, very closely at Rob's pictures. There are generally at least two things, like what direction to fold something regardless of the hill/valley markings, that need to be reviewed before applying glue.
    6. It's easy to get ahead of the pictures thinking "Oh, I'll just glue this up too." Don't do it.
    7. Rob often uses two different types of triangular folds to re-enforce openings or boxes. Double check the picture for which way it gets folded.
    8. Keep large scrap handy to wipe excess glue on.
    9. Don't get real heavy paper. Not needed and some printers aren't happy with it. ~65# seems good.

Ron


Re: Rob Ives Paper Automata Hack ~WARNING POLITICAL~

 

Hi Ron...
Thanks for sharing.  Paper automata is real.  And to my sense of things difficult.  I've never gotten tuned in to paper and really admire those that are tuned in.
And thanks for sharing this particular 'political' piece.
Cheers
-Jim Coffee-

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 at 04:47, Ron K via groups.io <peter.pilot=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I hesitate to call this anything of my own, standing on the shoulders of giants type of thing. Very political, I do not want to debate, just using my freedom of expression. But for others who struggle with "talent" maybe it will provide some inspiration. Rob has many, many free templates, and modeling in paper is cheap LOL and mistakes easily replaced. So until the real inspiration hits . . .

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBJ0HUEJRX6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Ron


Re: Teddy the Artist

 

Craig...
I admire your tenacity.  You are deep into the research!
I do hope that you find the solution (and that you share it with us).  And also that you will share your experimentation.  
I've rolled this little problem around in my head and so far I remain stumped
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 09:58, Craig <craiglonghurst@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
A quick update on this for those that are interested.
 
Spent quite a bit of time searching (and getting sidetracked - google patents database throws up all sorts of great stuff!), and have come to the conclusion that this must be using a pantograph with a driven magnetic follower (along the lines suggested by Kim and Dominique).
 
I searched for "magnetic wheel toy" and found that the "Whee-lo" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whee-lo was around in 1953, which is encouraging as it indicates that toys were using magnets pre-1960. The other interesting bit is that it was subtitled "The Magnetic Walking Wheel" - which is exactly what we want here.
 
So then, how do we get the wheel to 'walk' around the animal shape? More searching and I found patent US2651140 which whilst the magnet there isn't used for the same purpose, the toy does use a pantograph AND has a (manual) drive mechanism from the centre to the end of the arm (used for rotating a car via the magnet).
 
For Teddy we can use a similar approach to drive the magnetic follower in the central bearing:
I've ordered a cylindrical magnet to use as the follower, and I'm going to start experimenting with various drive transmissions to see what works best.
 
Would still be good to know for sure how the original works, but at least I've got an approach that *might* work.
 
Best wishes,
Craig
 


Re: What's On My Bench: Two videos

 

Hi Gus...
Not yet...I just received an 'hour meter' that I am in the process of installing.  Then I'm going to take it out and try to market it.
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Wish you luck with your product display. Is it in operation at a commercial establishment ?

Gus


Re: WIP "The Politician"

 

Hi Gus...
Thanks for posting.  I got out my converting calculator and see that this figure will be 31" high.  Very impressive.
I like the way that you have carved the head...nice shape and proportions and detail.  Good job.
Please do keep posting your progress.  These builds are very interesting.
Hand crank or motor?  What is your rough estimate for completion (month, year)?
Cheers
-Jim-

On Tue, 9 Jun 2020 at 21:16, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
A politician is standing in front of the usual flag background, and an impressive foyer, behind an equally impressive lectern. He is delivering a message, as they tend to do. At the end, something happens, which I will keep secret until completion, no need to spoil a surprise.
The figure is 800mm tall, has eyes which turn side to side, up/down, the head turns, nods up, down, the arms move and he body turns from the waist and bows. All is dependant upon success of managing to achieve all of that.......
The first part is the carving of the head, from a 90x90 mm block of Huon Pine, an Australian semi softwood which holds small details very well. It was some 28 hours to completion.



The interior was carved out to make room for the eye mechanism, which is the next part to fabricate. That will be added to this post as the process continues.



Regards, keep safe !
Gus


Rob Ives Paper Automata Hack ~WARNING POLITICAL~

Ron K
 

I hesitate to call this anything of my own, standing on the shoulders of giants type of thing. Very political, I do not want to debate, just using my freedom of expression. But for others who struggle with "talent" maybe it will provide some inspiration. Rob has many, many free templates, and modeling in paper is cheap LOL and mistakes easily replaced. So until the real inspiration hits . . .

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBJ0HUEJRX6/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Ron


Re: What's On My Bench: Two videos

Gus
 

Wish you luck with your product display. Is it in operation at a commercial establishment ?

Gus


WIP "The Politician"

Gus
 

A politician is standing in front of the usual flag background, and an impressive foyer, behind an equally impressive lectern. He is delivering a message, as they tend to do. At the end, something happens, which I will keep secret until completion, no need to spoil a surprise.
The figure is 800mm tall, has eyes which turn side to side, up/down, the head turns, nods up, down, the arms move and he body turns from the waist and bows. All is dependant upon success of managing to achieve all of that.......
The first part is the carving of the head, from a 90x90 mm block of Huon Pine, an Australian semi softwood which holds small details very well. It was some 28 hours to completion.



The interior was carved out to make room for the eye mechanism, which is the next part to fabricate. That will be added to this post as the process continues.



Regards, keep safe !
Gus


Re: Teddy the Artist

Craig
 

Hi Everyone,
 
A quick update on this for those that are interested.
 
Spent quite a bit of time searching (and getting sidetracked - google patents database throws up all sorts of great stuff!), and have come to the conclusion that this must be using a pantograph with a driven magnetic follower (along the lines suggested by Kim and Dominique).
 
I searched for "magnetic wheel toy" and found that the "Whee-lo" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whee-lo was around in 1953, which is encouraging as it indicates that toys were using magnets pre-1960. The other interesting bit is that it was subtitled "The Magnetic Walking Wheel" - which is exactly what we want here.
 
So then, how do we get the wheel to 'walk' around the animal shape? More searching and I found patent US2651140 which whilst the magnet there isn't used for the same purpose, the toy does use a pantograph AND has a (manual) drive mechanism from the centre to the end of the arm (used for rotating a car via the magnet).
 
For Teddy we can use a similar approach to drive the magnetic follower in the central bearing:
I've ordered a cylindrical magnet to use as the follower, and I'm going to start experimenting with various drive transmissions to see what works best.
 
Would still be good to know for sure how the original works, but at least I've got an approach that *might* work.
 
Best wishes,
Craig
 


Re: What's On My Bench: Two videos

Craig
 

Thanks Jim. That's a great deal of useful information.

I've only used DC geared motors myself, which run happily for push-button operation (short running). I will definitely have to start using the mains motors. They have the added advantage of being synchronous, so can be built into clocks (another of my passions - although I tend towards mechanical clocks because of the variety in escapements).

Of course with mains voltage comes a whole new area of safety concerns for me. Here in the UK anything on public display must be PAT tested to ensure electrical safety and earthing. The in-line circuit breaker is a good idea.

I'd not considered the choice of power cord, but now you mention it I'll explore what's available. I quite like the idea of finding a power cord that is aesthetically pleasing as well as functional (much like the braided USB cables on the market nowadays)

Craig

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