1. automata@automatamagazine.groups.io
   Date   
Re: Ron K...thanks for the Teddy the Artist images

Dominique Corbin
 

Thanks Ron!
Very ingenious  and full of good mechanical ideas !
Re: Paul Spooner's 1998 Cabaret Mechanical Theatre Anubis Paper Cutout "Magic Soup"

Jim Larson
 

Can't really help with info on "Magic Soup". But you can find out more about the Geneva mechanism (also called the Geneva Stop mechanism) in Ellen Rixford's Figures in the Fourth Dimension (pp. 42-43 and 317-318) and in Keisuke Saka's Karakuri (pp. 30, 45, and 101 - a nice paper model).

Googling for "Design of Geneva Mechanism" will yield some useful technical information to guide your design.
Paul Spooner's 1998 Cabaret Mechanical Theatre Anubis Paper Cutout "Magic Soup"

Ron K
 

Not being endowed with the " . . .  creativity, invention, artistry, exception skill, and virtuosity. " Mr. Rudd specifies as necessary to advance the art of automata (Automata Magazine, Volume 2, Number 4, July August 2020 Confessions of a part-time automatics by Randall Rudd) I'm afraid I must content myself to use that of others.

Hence I'm trying to locate information on the Paul Spooner paper cutout "Magic Soup" once available from Cabaret Mechanical Theatre. I went off on an incorrect tangent mistaken in thinking it had been included in the 1986 "Moving Animals" before I used Archive.org to check how it has been sold. Ayway, now I have a copy of "Moving Animals" in my reference library LOL.

I'm particularly interested in what I suspect is a Gineva mechanism similar to the one described by Cecilia Schuller in the issue I reference above to rotate the egg,  chick, and roast chicken. If I was patient I could simply wait until the next issue for her description, but here we are. 

TIA

Ron
Re: Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

Jim Coffee
 

The craftsmanship is exquisite!  What a treat to see.
Thanks
-Jim in San Diego-

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 10:15, Ron K via groups.io <peter.pilot=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Too funny, just stumbled across an old Dug North post with a YouTube link.https://youtu.be/ivIHcHwR6b0

Re: Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

Ron K
 

Too funny, just stumbled across an old Dug North post with a YouTube link.https://youtu.be/ivIHcHwR6b0
Re: Teddy the Artist

Jim Coffee
 

Many thanks to both of you for this.  It's an intriguing little machine.  Your summary of how it works is a nice read.
Craig...your build looks very capable.  It will be fun to see how it turns out.
Thanks for participating in this forum.
-Jim in San Diego-


On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 05:10, Craig <craiglonghurst@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
It's been a few weeks since, so thought I'd best post an update.
 
With huge thanks to Ron K we now have the answer to Teddy's secret. I found a non-working Teddy the Artist for sale in the US but the seller wouldn't ship to the UK. Fortunately Ron had developed an interest in the mechanism and made the purchase himself. Ron began careful disassembly and has uploaded many photos of the inner workings to an album in the 'Photos' section of this group.
 
Long story short, we were on the right track. Kim's earlier theory about something 'walking' around the perimeter of the pattern, and Dominique's suggestion of using a magnet was spot on.
 
Being in a non-working state we have had to study the static components of the mechanism. So far Ron and I have been able to deduce the following:

Follower:
  • In simple terms, the mechanism is a two-piece pivoted arm with a driven (rotating) magnetic follower in the free end of the arm. Also located in the free end of the arm is a freely pivoting stiff wire which allows the movement of the arm to be taken outside of the housing and back over the top so that the pattern is replicated directly above
Raising of magnet to clear pattern:
  • The arm is only raised *during* removal of the pattern tray, to allow the pattern to be removed without fouling on the magnet (eg. if the magnet was at the leftmost side of the pattern it would be in the way).
  • Raising is done by a cam acting on the (pivoted) angled flat bar at the base of the toy.
  • The rotation of the cam is caused by an upper lobe which engages the square hole in the pattern tray.
  • On insertion of the pattern tray, the upper lobe is pushed forwards and then rides under the tray until it reaches the square hole, at which point it engages into the square hole. The pivoted arm is not raised at this time because the cam is rotating in the opposite direction.
  • On removal of the pattern tray, the upper lobe hits the internal far edge of the square hole and is forced below the tray - this causes the cam to rotate (which lifts the arm). The upper lobe rides under the tray until the tray has been fully removed and the upper lobe then springs back to rest position (which causes the arm to drop).
Pincer arms:
  • The pincer arms act on the stiff wire attachment (that goes to Teddy's right hand).
  • They do not act on the magnet directly as this would prevent the magnet from rotating around the pattern.
  • The pincer arms are not used to apply traction for the magnet.
  • The purpose of the pincer arms is to contain the end of the pivoted arm in a position such that it will be in the path of the pattern when inserted (the magnet will be in the low position and the edge of the pattern will make contact with it during insertion).
  • Without the pincer arms, the pivoted arm would 'flop about', and it would not be possible to guarantee engagement of the magnet with the pattern when inserted.
Patterns:
  • Must not have tight turns which would allow cylindrical magnet to attract in multiple positions on its circumference, otherwise it cannot rotate.
  • Teddy's patterns are all very simple, and can be seen that every curve is sufficiently large enough to accommodate the cylindrical magnet

I have started building my own version of Teddy using Meccano parts (I'm a keen Meccano model builder!). After contacting various magnet suppliers in the UK (and making several purchases of different cylindrical magnets which turned out to be hopeless) I settled on a 4mm x 20mm Alnico-5 rod. A small square Meccano plate (set as a diamond) has been used for the pattern. My intention is to use interchangeable metal cookie cutter shapes but I need to source some others because the ones I tried didn't have large enough curves to allow the magnet to follow freely.

I've uploaded a short video of my current development here: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AvLBm-8v6v7jmHPdRijvpG81X9g3?e=dPVim4 

Next step is to add a desk and attach a pencil via a wire arm to the end of the follower.

Best wishes,
Craig
Re: Motors: was Re: [automata-forum] WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Jim Coffee
 

Good morning Gus...
Thanks for responding.  Having an electronics store close with inventory that you can actually feel and see is a valuable asset.  You are fortunate.
I understand now about your desire for DC.  Thanks for explaining.
Yes, a wall wart is one of those cords that has a little box on the end that plugs into the wall.  The little box converts the wall electricity to something else.
Please update this thread with your choice of motor and controller after you have made the decision.  At least I would like to know how you resolved.
Building the automata (and using a hand-crank during the build) is really important.  It is through the hand-crank that you get a good feel for how things are functioning.
Thanks for participating in this forum.
-Jim in San Diego-

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 16:16, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,

DC negates the need for a power outlet, does not need a wall, can be in the middle of a room for example, doesn't have a trailing cord etc. That's why I prefer that option. DC motors from what I can see are easy to source too. There is an electronics store here which has a range of geared motors, AC and DC, and plug in speed controllers. Makes selection easier than an online order from overseas suppliers. Initially, I will set up the "engine room" as manual, see how much effort it needs to operate everything, then find a suitable motor. It may be that the input speed and torque is easier to find than I am supposing. Then the motor RPM can be ordered to suit. All grist for the mill !
By the way, what is a "wall wart", a power outlet on a wall, or something else ?

Regards,
Gus 

Keep Safe

On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:47 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
  • Regarding the fuses that I use:  I don't use fuses, rather I use circuit breakers.  3 amp.  They don't draw any power.  They just sit there and if the amperage exceeds 3 amps they disconnect things.
  • Regarding motors: I've only powered about 7 automata...so have limited experience.  
    • I've chosen to use gear motors because they have built-in speed reduction.  They provide excellent torque and I only need low speeds.
    • I've chosen to use 120 vac motors because (in this country) 120 vac power is universally available.
    • I've chosen to NOT use motors that require some sort of 'wall wart'.  This means I've chosen to not use 12 v or 24 v etc. motors.
However...your queries and thoughts are provoking my thoughts...and I am questioning my own solutions.  For example...you keep mentioning that you want DC.  I wonder why?  And then I look at variable speed motors and find that brushless DC motors are available and that they work well.  I also find that servos can be speed controlled at continuous revolutions.  So what I am doing right now is (re)investigating motor solutions.  
I agree with you that an automata has a 'golden speed'...a speed that is perfect for it.  So I understand you wanting variable speed motors.
This motor thread will go for a while I think.  I hope others will join this conversation.  Between us all we have collective knowledge that is greater than any individual.
I appreciate this forum and the opportunity to learn and to share.
Regards from San Diego, California
-Jim Coffee-

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 22:26, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
And to you Jim,

Thank you for your comments and help with motor information and sources. Until now, all 15 automata built have been manual, driven by hand. I have found that they have an optimum crank speed, all different, even though governed by a  gear train. I expect that this will apply equally to motor driven mechanics. Having no experience with motors, and to avoid the purchase of a number of them, I am considering an external  speed control,  but not decided anything yet. With the exception of a gear motor being DC. In a similar vein, the cams would be much smaller blank than I am used to working with. All these aspects, and others, have to do with having to think of every single component of the total concept during the building, and is dictated by the absence of working drawings and specific planning. 
Would you discuss your use of a fuse, what type, does it cut in on overload, and also if there a change in the load, ie a component disconnects ?

Not happy to read that the virus is spreading fast and furious in your country !

Regards,
Gus

Stay Safe

On 30 Jun 2020, at 12:35 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Greeting Gus...
Very ingenious and inventive.  I believe that I've been able to follow all of the motion paths and that I understand what you have created.  What a joy to see an automata like this under construction!  Your mechanism looks solid and functional.  Thanks very much for sharing this!  Please keep posting your progress.

Regarding variable speed motors...I have little experience.  A top-level question that I have is "why" do you want a variable speed motor?  In the end, do you want a single-speed motor and you are going to experiment with speeds until you are pleased?  Or something else?
If you are just going to experiment you could use something that you already have laying around like a variable speed electric drill. Or, a sewing machine motor and pedal.
In the end, I suspect that you will want a gear motor.  Gear motors come both constant speed or variable speed.
You will notice that the world of variable speed gear motors is smaller.  
And something that surprised me...a sewing machine motor and foot pedal combination is relatively inexpensive

Thanks again for sharing
-Jim in San Diego-


On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 16:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe


Attachments:
Re: Teddy the Artist

Craig
 

Hi Everyone,
 
It's been a few weeks since, so thought I'd best post an update.
 
With huge thanks to Ron K we now have the answer to Teddy's secret. I found a non-working Teddy the Artist for sale in the US but the seller wouldn't ship to the UK. Fortunately Ron had developed an interest in the mechanism and made the purchase himself. Ron began careful disassembly and has uploaded many photos of the inner workings to an album in the 'Photos' section of this group.
 
Long story short, we were on the right track. Kim's earlier theory about something 'walking' around the perimeter of the pattern, and Dominique's suggestion of using a magnet was spot on.
 
Being in a non-working state we have had to study the static components of the mechanism. So far Ron and I have been able to deduce the following:

Follower:
  • In simple terms, the mechanism is a two-piece pivoted arm with a driven (rotating) magnetic follower in the free end of the arm. Also located in the free end of the arm is a freely pivoting stiff wire which allows the movement of the arm to be taken outside of the housing and back over the top so that the pattern is replicated directly above
Raising of magnet to clear pattern:
  • The arm is only raised *during* removal of the pattern tray, to allow the pattern to be removed without fouling on the magnet (eg. if the magnet was at the leftmost side of the pattern it would be in the way).
  • Raising is done by a cam acting on the (pivoted) angled flat bar at the base of the toy.
  • The rotation of the cam is caused by an upper lobe which engages the square hole in the pattern tray.
  • On insertion of the pattern tray, the upper lobe is pushed forwards and then rides under the tray until it reaches the square hole, at which point it engages into the square hole. The pivoted arm is not raised at this time because the cam is rotating in the opposite direction.
  • On removal of the pattern tray, the upper lobe hits the internal far edge of the square hole and is forced below the tray - this causes the cam to rotate (which lifts the arm). The upper lobe rides under the tray until the tray has been fully removed and the upper lobe then springs back to rest position (which causes the arm to drop).
Pincer arms:
  • The pincer arms act on the stiff wire attachment (that goes to Teddy's right hand).
  • They do not act on the magnet directly as this would prevent the magnet from rotating around the pattern.
  • The pincer arms are not used to apply traction for the magnet.
  • The purpose of the pincer arms is to contain the end of the pivoted arm in a position such that it will be in the path of the pattern when inserted (the magnet will be in the low position and the edge of the pattern will make contact with it during insertion).
  • Without the pincer arms, the pivoted arm would 'flop about', and it would not be possible to guarantee engagement of the magnet with the pattern when inserted.
Patterns:
  • Must not have tight turns which would allow cylindrical magnet to attract in multiple positions on its circumference, otherwise it cannot rotate.
  • Teddy's patterns are all very simple, and can be seen that every curve is sufficiently large enough to accommodate the cylindrical magnet

I have started building my own version of Teddy using Meccano parts (I'm a keen Meccano model builder!). After contacting various magnet suppliers in the UK (and making several purchases of different cylindrical magnets which turned out to be hopeless) I settled on a 4mm x 20mm Alnico-5 rod. A small square Meccano plate (set as a diamond) has been used for the pattern. My intention is to use interchangeable metal cookie cutter shapes but I need to source some others because the ones I tried didn't have large enough curves to allow the magnet to follow freely.

I've uploaded a short video of my current development here: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AvLBm-8v6v7jmHPdRijvpG81X9g3?e=dPVim4 

Next step is to add a desk and attach a pencil via a wire arm to the end of the follower.

Best wishes,
Craig
Re: Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

Jim Larson
 

Goggle for Francois Junod to see a contemporary example of a writing automaton. His work is amazing!
Also, have a look at Ellen Rixford's wonderful book, Figures in the Fourth Dimension. She devotes 30 pages to the details of Henri Maillardet's writing and drawing automaton from the early 1800's. Yes, that's not contemporary, but the details of how it works would help you understand any recent work in the same vein.
Re: Motors: was Re: [automata-forum] WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Gus
 

Hi Jim,

DC negates the need for a power outlet, does not need a wall, can be in the middle of a room for example, doesn't have a trailing cord etc. That's why I prefer that option. DC motors from what I can see are easy to source too. There is an electronics store here which has a range of geared motors, AC and DC, and plug in speed controllers. Makes selection easier than an online order from overseas suppliers. Initially, I will set up the "engine room" as manual, see how much effort it needs to operate everything, then find a suitable motor. It may be that the input speed and torque is easier to find than I am supposing. Then the motor RPM can be ordered to suit. All grist for the mill !
By the way, what is a "wall wart", a power outlet on a wall, or something else ?

Regards,
Gus 

Keep Safe

On 2 Jul 2020, at 12:47 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Hi Gus...
  • Regarding the fuses that I use:  I don't use fuses, rather I use circuit breakers.  3 amp.  They don't draw any power.  They just sit there and if the amperage exceeds 3 amps they disconnect things.
  • Regarding motors: I've only powered about 7 automata...so have limited experience.  
    • I've chosen to use gear motors because they have built-in speed reduction.  They provide excellent torque and I only need low speeds.
    • I've chosen to use 120 vac motors because (in this country) 120 vac power is universally available.
    • I've chosen to NOT use motors that require some sort of 'wall wart'.  This means I've chosen to not use 12 v or 24 v etc. motors.
However...your queries and thoughts are provoking my thoughts...and I am questioning my own solutions.  For example...you keep mentioning that you want DC.  I wonder why?  And then I look at variable speed motors and find that brushless DC motors are available and that they work well.  I also find that servos can be speed controlled at continuous revolutions.  So what I am doing right now is (re)investigating motor solutions.  
I agree with you that an automata has a 'golden speed'...a speed that is perfect for it.  So I understand you wanting variable speed motors.
This motor thread will go for a while I think.  I hope others will join this conversation.  Between us all we have collective knowledge that is greater than any individual.
I appreciate this forum and the opportunity to learn and to share.
Regards from San Diego, California
-Jim Coffee-

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 22:26, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
And to you Jim,

Thank you for your comments and help with motor information and sources. Until now, all 15 automata built have been manual, driven by hand. I have found that they have an optimum crank speed, all different, even though governed by a  gear train. I expect that this will apply equally to motor driven mechanics. Having no experience with motors, and to avoid the purchase of a number of them, I am considering an external  speed control,  but not decided anything yet. With the exception of a gear motor being DC. In a similar vein, the cams would be much smaller blank than I am used to working with. All these aspects, and others, have to do with having to think of every single component of the total concept during the building, and is dictated by the absence of working drawings and specific planning. 
Would you discuss your use of a fuse, what type, does it cut in on overload, and also if there a change in the load, ie a component disconnects ?

Not happy to read that the virus is spreading fast and furious in your country !

Regards,
Gus

Stay Safe

On 30 Jun 2020, at 12:35 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Greeting Gus...
Very ingenious and inventive.  I believe that I've been able to follow all of the motion paths and that I understand what you have created.  What a joy to see an automata like this under construction!  Your mechanism looks solid and functional.  Thanks very much for sharing this!  Please keep posting your progress.

Regarding variable speed motors...I have little experience.  A top-level question that I have is "why" do you want a variable speed motor?  In the end, do you want a single-speed motor and you are going to experiment with speeds until you are pleased?  Or something else?
If you are just going to experiment you could use something that you already have laying around like a variable speed electric drill. Or, a sewing machine motor and pedal.
In the end, I suspect that you will want a gear motor.  Gear motors come both constant speed or variable speed.
You will notice that the world of variable speed gear motors is smaller.  
And something that surprised me...a sewing machine motor and foot pedal combination is relatively inexpensive

Thanks again for sharing
-Jim in San Diego-


On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 16:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe


Attachments:
Re: Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

Craig
 

Also, if you haven't already seen it, Shasa Bolton has a great 5-page article in the Jan/Feb 2020 issue (Automata Magazine) that covers writing automata and his wonderful Skrippy writer.

Craig
Ron K...thanks for the Teddy the Artist images

Jim Coffee
 

Hi Ron...
Thanks for purchasing and uploading.  Looks complicated.  Will try to digest later today.
Mystery solved!  Thanks again for the images!
Cheers
-Jim Coffee-
one of the Automata Group Moderators
I create automata near San Diego, California
Re: Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

Ron K
 

Here is a recent discussion: https://automatamagazine.groups.io/g/automata/message/461
Motors: was Re: [automata-forum] WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Jim Coffee
 

Hi Gus...
  • Regarding the fuses that I use:  I don't use fuses, rather I use circuit breakers.  3 amp.  They don't draw any power.  They just sit there and if the amperage exceeds 3 amps they disconnect things.
  • Regarding motors: I've only powered about 7 automata...so have limited experience.  
    • I've chosen to use gear motors because they have built-in speed reduction.  They provide excellent torque and I only need low speeds.
    • I've chosen to use 120 vac motors because (in this country) 120 vac power is universally available.
    • I've chosen to NOT use motors that require some sort of 'wall wart'.  This means I've chosen to not use 12 v or 24 v etc. motors.
However...your queries and thoughts are provoking my thoughts...and I am questioning my own solutions.  For example...you keep mentioning that you want DC.  I wonder why?  And then I look at variable speed motors and find that brushless DC motors are available and that they work well.  I also find that servos can be speed controlled at continuous revolutions.  So what I am doing right now is (re)investigating motor solutions.  
I agree with you that an automata has a 'golden speed'...a speed that is perfect for it.  So I understand you wanting variable speed motors.
This motor thread will go for a while I think.  I hope others will join this conversation.  Between us all we have collective knowledge that is greater than any individual.
I appreciate this forum and the opportunity to learn and to share.
Regards from San Diego, California
-Jim Coffee-

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 22:26, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
And to you Jim,

Thank you for your comments and help with motor information and sources. Until now, all 15 automata built have been manual, driven by hand. I have found that they have an optimum crank speed, all different, even though governed by a  gear train. I expect that this will apply equally to motor driven mechanics. Having no experience with motors, and to avoid the purchase of a number of them, I am considering an external  speed control,  but not decided anything yet. With the exception of a gear motor being DC. In a similar vein, the cams would be much smaller blank than I am used to working with. All these aspects, and others, have to do with having to think of every single component of the total concept during the building, and is dictated by the absence of working drawings and specific planning. 
Would you discuss your use of a fuse, what type, does it cut in on overload, and also if there a change in the load, ie a component disconnects ?

Not happy to read that the virus is spreading fast and furious in your country !

Regards,
Gus

Stay Safe

On 30 Jun 2020, at 12:35 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Greeting Gus...
Very ingenious and inventive.  I believe that I've been able to follow all of the motion paths and that I understand what you have created.  What a joy to see an automata like this under construction!  Your mechanism looks solid and functional.  Thanks very much for sharing this!  Please keep posting your progress.

Regarding variable speed motors...I have little experience.  A top-level question that I have is "why" do you want a variable speed motor?  In the end, do you want a single-speed motor and you are going to experiment with speeds until you are pleased?  Or something else?
If you are just going to experiment you could use something that you already have laying around like a variable speed electric drill. Or, a sewing machine motor and pedal.
In the end, I suspect that you will want a gear motor.  Gear motors come both constant speed or variable speed.
You will notice that the world of variable speed gear motors is smaller.  
And something that surprised me...a sewing machine motor and foot pedal combination is relatively inexpensive

Thanks again for sharing
-Jim in San Diego-


On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 16:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe


Attachments:
Are there any recent automata that write letters or draw pictures?

autopilotjim
 

Like many of us, I'm fascinated by the writer and the draftsman found in these two links: 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux2KW20nqHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZiH7oF3OMM

Are there any modern-day equivalent devices? 

Thanks
Re: WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Gus
 

And to you Jim,

Thank you for your comments and help with motor information and sources. Until now, all 15 automata built have been manual, driven by hand. I have found that they have an optimum crank speed, all different, even though governed by a  gear train. I expect that this will apply equally to motor driven mechanics. Having no experience with motors, and to avoid the purchase of a number of them, I am considering an external  speed control,  but not decided anything yet. With the exception of a gear motor being DC. In a similar vein, the cams would be much smaller blank than I am used to working with. All these aspects, and others, have to do with having to think of every single component of the total concept during the building, and is dictated by the absence of working drawings and specific planning. 
Would you discuss your use of a fuse, what type, does it cut in on overload, and also if there a change in the load, ie a component disconnects ?

Not happy to read that the virus is spreading fast and furious in your country !

Regards,
Gus

Stay Safe

On 30 Jun 2020, at 12:35 pm, Jim Coffee <jim@...> wrote:

Greeting Gus...
Very ingenious and inventive.  I believe that I've been able to follow all of the motion paths and that I understand what you have created.  What a joy to see an automata like this under construction!  Your mechanism looks solid and functional.  Thanks very much for sharing this!  Please keep posting your progress.

Regarding variable speed motors...I have little experience.  A top-level question that I have is "why" do you want a variable speed motor?  In the end, do you want a single-speed motor and you are going to experiment with speeds until you are pleased?  Or something else?
If you are just going to experiment you could use something that you already have laying around like a variable speed electric drill. Or, a sewing machine motor and pedal.
In the end, I suspect that you will want a gear motor.  Gear motors come both constant speed or variable speed.
Here is an eBay link to 115 vac gear motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R3.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xgear+motor.TRS0&_nkw=gear+motor+115v&_sacat=0
Here is an eBay link to variable speed gear motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H1.Xgear+motor%2C+variable+speed.TRS0&_nkw=gear+motor%2C+variable+speed&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=gear+motor+115v%2C+variable+speed
And here is an eBay link to sewing machine motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xsewing+machine+mo.TRS0&_nkw=sewing+machine+motor&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=gear+motor%2C+variable+speed
You will notice that the world of variable speed gear motors is smaller.  
And something that surprised me...a sewing machine motor and foot pedal combination is relatively inexpensive

Thanks again for sharing
-Jim in San Diego-


On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 16:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe


Attachments:
Re: WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Jim Coffee
 

Greeting Gus...
Very ingenious and inventive.  I believe that I've been able to follow all of the motion paths and that I understand what you have created.  What a joy to see an automata like this under construction!  Your mechanism looks solid and functional.  Thanks very much for sharing this!  Please keep posting your progress.

Regarding variable speed motors...I have little experience.  A top-level question that I have is "why" do you want a variable speed motor?  In the end, do you want a single-speed motor and you are going to experiment with speeds until you are pleased?  Or something else?
If you are just going to experiment you could use something that you already have laying around like a variable speed electric drill. Or, a sewing machine motor and pedal.
In the end, I suspect that you will want a gear motor.  Gear motors come both constant speed or variable speed.
Here is an eBay link to 115 vac gear motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R3.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xgear+motor.TRS0&_nkw=gear+motor+115v&_sacat=0
Here is an eBay link to variable speed gear motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H1.Xgear+motor%2C+variable+speed.TRS0&_nkw=gear+motor%2C+variable+speed&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=gear+motor+115v%2C+variable+speed
And here is an eBay link to sewing machine motors: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xsewing+machine+mo.TRS0&_nkw=sewing+machine+motor&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=gear+motor%2C+variable+speed
You will notice that the world of variable speed gear motors is smaller.  
And something that surprised me...a sewing machine motor and foot pedal combination is relatively inexpensive

Thanks again for sharing
-Jim in San Diego-


On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 16:23, Gus <klekner@...> wrote:
The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe

Re: WIP "The Politician" Eye Mechanism

Gus
 

The mechanism has two parts - a hinge section which is fixed to the hollowed out head, and the eyes which are part of a device to move them side to side and up/down. The eyes section connect to the hinge by a clamp, which allows adjustment to the eye sockets. The hinge has a return spring eliminating the need for hard wire controls, in favour of cable/cam.



The eye mechanism front view



Eye mechanism rear and cable connections



The assembly fitted to the head



The face, eyes fitted. I have made a video of the movements, but not able to post here. 



Jim,
Thanks for your comments. I would want to use a speed controller for the motor. Have you used speed control, and if so, is there  power loss ? 

Regards,
Gus

Keep safe
Re: First Attempt... mechanism animation video to working model

Jim Coffee
 

Hi Jim...
Good job on this. Let us see a video of your final?
This is fun!
Cheers
-Jim in San Diego-


On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 19:03, autopilotjim <jim7485@...> wrote:
I’m thinking of buying a 10 RPM gear motor. Maybe replace the paddles with birds? Or faces wearing masks?

Re: First Attempt... mechanism animation video to working model

autopilotjim
 

I’m thinking of buying a 10 RPM gear motor. Maybe replace the paddles with birds? Or faces wearing masks?
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